This week I sit down with Alice from France who runs a commentary style channel, focusing on relationships, society and feminism. We talk about the dating scene in France, the issue with dating and relationships of today, and where we are heading as a society.
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Each week I will interview guests from all around the world on the topics of culture, connection and of course, dating. The goal is to go as deep as possible and to really understand where we all come from and how much culture influences our life.
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The way that we we tolerate flirting and infidelity way more than in other cultures I feel like sometimes this this language of emotional labor of prioritizing the self can be detrimental to the point where we actually don’t even care about the other person I think the thing that I enjoy the least would
Be parisians is kind of bad because there are a lot of them in Paris for some Reasons hello and welcome welcome to another podcast today’s guest is a French Creator who makes commentary videos about cultural Trends gender roles and relationships she has also published a book called collapse feminism the online battle for feminism’s future I found her content to be well thought out and definitely
Discussion invoking so I’m excited to dive into the intricacies of French culture and relationships as well as get into some of the struggles we face with looking for love in 2023 welcome to Al Capel thank you for coming on today Alice happy to have you here thank you for having me thank you
For having me let’s talk about the French dating scene let’s start with that so for anyone who’s not living in France what do you feel they have to know about the French dating scene what do they have it’s interesting because like obviously I’ve been traveling quite
A lot and I taught French in various settings Etc and like the topic of relationships and dating is something that comes back pretty often um and usually I’m very very negative I go like just be careful with those French boys CU like they’re going to talk they’re
Going to start talking to you or sound all romantic and blah blah blah but don’t get tra you know but I would say that yeah maybe two things that come to mind with the the dating scene in in France is that it’s less uh in comparison to other countries
And other dating scenes that say it’s less structured so it’s less oh yeah you need to say to this person that you like them after like a couple of dates so like then you need to say this and this and that it’s more like let’s go with
The flow see where that goes and I know that some uh foreigners or experts can be a bit confused with all of that because they’re like am I in a relationship am I not in a relationship what is going on uh so I guess that would be like one one big feature of
French the French dating dating scene another one and it’s interesting because I had a conversation um on that topic with a British friend recently is the way that we we tolerate flirting and infidel way more than in other cultures I mean to be fair like it’s a very Latin thing
To to be honest but um it’s true that uh for example we were talking about is flirting cheating and for me it was like no it’s not and for him it was like yeah it kind of is and so that was interesting to see like the sort of
Cultural differences there uh so I guess yeah two things that that come to mind regarding like the the dating scene here um maybe in terms of like dating apps I know a lot of French people a lot of friends of mine use dating apps we kind of all hate them and it’s like
So anti French like it’s so ATI like all the you know the stereotypes we associate with like romance in France and things like that so but I guess like we we do use them a lot as well yeah that’s very interesting I think the first point is is uh is something that
Comes up a lot especially when we compare the French dating to American dating which is all about labels and labeling the relationship you know you go on three dates four dates you’re still dating around and seeing other people and then you sit down and you have the exclusivity
Conversation what is the you know what is the reaction to that of French people like how do they feel about that style of dating you mean like the more with the labels and everything exactly I feel like it’s becoming more and more commentary because of how open we are
Now about you know like open relationships and the fact that you can’t just like have fun and like not communicate with the other person your intentions so I feel like maybe it’s I would say yeah maybe it’s changing when maybe we communicate uh way more U maybe we establish the those
Labels way more as a form of you know maybe also with the development of therapy therapy speak all those things so it’s like hey you actually have to tell the other person what you feel um and things like that because like you don’t want to hurt them in the end um
And so maybe like putting the the passion on pause or on the side to uh you know like make sure that you don’t hurt the other person so I guess yeah maybe it’s changing Maybe adopting that sort of dating style way more in France
So maybe it’s just me I don’t know but I feel like it things are changing yeah where are you from in France are you from Paris or somewhere else I grew up in the north of France uh in Lil and now I’m based in Paris it’s been two two
Months but I live very close to even I grew up quite close to to Paris still so I would go to Paris quite often so yeah more like northern northern France really yeah Leela is uh one two hours away from Paris I think it is I stayed
There at one point and I loved it it was a lot more I would say Belgian influenced than it is a lot of yeah yeah no that’s funny because like for example um the we was raised and like the things we say about people living uh close to to liil is like we’re
Way colder than you know it’s it’s more like the German style like the the the sort of German um yeah type of type of being where it’s more like way more direct way more but that doesn’t mean that we’re cold at heart cuz like also known for being like very welcoming cuz
People don’t want to come to the north of France you know there’s so many stereotypes around the the north of France it’s like no we’re actually nice and like you know like we’re not the like the parisians but at the same time like we’re very more um way more direct
In our style of communication as well yeah very interesting do you find that Parisian dating is kind of uh what I’ve heard is that it’s quite commitment phobic and very much kind of dating around as well do you find that yeah I don’t know if it’s something that’s
Specific to Paris or if it’s something that is just specific of living in big cities because like everywhere I traveled I spend some time in New York London Etc I always hear the same stories it’s like yeah it’s either like you have two options either you have the
People who don’t want to commit just want the sort of situation shape type of thing and then you have the other type of people who are like I want to commit this is the moment I want to have kids husband and like so if you are in the
Middle trying to build connections but it’s kind of maybe it’s can be a bit difficult because like that that one side of no no commitment can sometimes be sort of impersonal so for example like a friend of mine is trying to find yeah the sort of Middle Ground of like I
Want a connection I want emotional involvement in that relationship but at the same time I’m not going to commit to like kids and you know marriage and things like that and like um so I feel like it’s it’s more a city life thing just people having their career people
Like so many people coming in coming out and like constant flow and maybe have to add that extra layer of like Parisian romantic love that makes it even less clear I would say yeah that’s very true I feel like cities like New York uh La Paris London they attract a certain type
Of people that don’t want to stay in their hometowns so they come there looking for opportunities and as such they’re obviously not as willing to have a family and settle and and and like do that kind of Lifestyle um the people that do that obviously usually stay in
Smaller uh towns so of course then New York you know has the fame of you dating around for an eternity like the most commit phobic City I think in the world I think I think New York and I la and Miami and the us at least are considered
The worst to find someone uh to you know to commit to someone and then of course you know we have Paris and London like all the big cities they kind of fall into the same category do you feel like uh the dating scene I don’t know if
You’re in it do you feel like it’s changed in France in the last few years do you feel like people are becoming less willing to commit to a person uh to a relationship is everyone just looking for the next best thing that’s interesting so I haven’t
Been on the dating scene for a while cuz like I’ve went from relationship to relationship like transition um but like just from Friends Etc because that’s a topic that comes back uh pretty often in ation I feel like the co lockdown era had very much an impact on
On my friends and their their relationship with with love and and romance um they started to Crave stability way more than than they used to in the past and I feel like now now that we’re really like out of that phase maybe the freedom wanting to experiment
Type of thing comes back um so that’s something I’ve noticed among my my friends group uh but at the same time like I’m I’m 25 and I can I start to see also like different among my female friends for example like different expectations when it come to
Relationship where it’s like okay like I had fun early 20s and now maybe I’m looking for something different so it’s interesting to look also like the the sort of the Dynamics like with age like how that changes in the context of City Life where depending on the the gender
Like some people will look for different things um but yeah I feel like Co definitely had like a sort of I want a stable lifestyle I want a stable relationship effect on people and now things are getting a little bit looser but I don’t know yeah I don’t really
Know like for younger people how how that kind of plays out if something I’ve definitely noticed is like how flaky people are now it’s insane it’s insane really like even at work or like just it’s like a um just you know like this is and this is is kind of concerning I
Think um the sort of the I matter the most because I see it kind of like that it’s like I matter my emotions my everything about me matters and therefore uh I am allowed to you know like say no to that person and or something like that and last minute or
Will just cancel these dates because I don’t feel like it and it’s like I know like you know that kind of I I don’t really like that really I agree I feel like you know people always ask me like what’s the best dating scene around the world like I honestly don’t
Know especially like if we look at the Western World if we look at like Europe US Canada Latin America um I just I I haven’t found a place where people you know when we’re talking about India you know South Asian countries obviously that that’s a completely different
Dynamic there but when I’m talking about the Western world I mean we have such a such a such choice we have such a I would say paralysis of choice like we have just so many options and I also feel like it’s become so much about the
Self which is in itself like it’s a good thing you know I you want to live a life that’s that’s you know you want to live the best life you can live but then what happens is we’ve all become so flaky as a society and I see that all over the
World now I mean uh from France to the US to Germany to Italy there’s a tendency to just not commit you know I I see it on dating apps where my friends will say we’re having a conversation I’ll ask him a question he deletes me like it just out
Of nowhere you know and I think we’ve set the standards so high as well that it has to be like the best thing uh and it has to be right now I have to feel incredibly passionate about it and I have to continue feeling passionate about it it’s become this incredible
High that we can’t really live up to and and so you’re right I think like the flakiness is definitely a big part of our society and you know what I find interesting with that is that a lot of people will then criticize dating us being like Oh dating apps are [ __ ] blah
Blah blah whatever I won’t use them um but it’s interesting to me because dating apps are just like one medium through which the way we behave in society is exposed you know um I don’t think that of course like the way me dating apps are structured will favor
That sort of ghosting because you can delete someone like that and disappear so obviously but you know I made a video recently on the the sort of instrumentalization of emotional labor and the fact that a lot of people will put forward this argument like I don’t
Want to do the emotional labor of doing this and that and of course there are cases where it’s totally valid you know like there have been cases I’ve heard of friends who were on dating apps and had very bad experiences men um just being very aggressive or like not
Understanding that they don’t want a second date and like maybe the the reasons are valid Etc so for safety reasons like totally go like ghost run away girl um or boy or whoever uh is um in that interaction but generally speaking Yeah like the I feel like sometimes this this language of
Emotional labor of prioritizing the self can be detrimental Al to the point where we actually don’t even care about the other person like it’s it’s a real P person on the other on the other side of the screen you know and like you cannot owe them something you owe them an
Explanation you owe them because if you start to normalizing this this behavior in dating you’re going to start normalizing it in other areas and uh the the it’s it works in in many different directions like if you start normalizing ghosting people at your workplace or like disrespecting people at your
Workplace then you’re going to start doing that in your dating life as well so it’s just like for me it’s it’s bigger than just dating apps it’s like a whole like cultural phenomenon of prioritizing the self at all cost but also at the expense of others and their
Well-being and their right to you know like know what is going on so so yeah that’s something that kind of frustrates me as well I I love that you say it’s just a medium because obviously if you do meet someone in real life you can just in mid conversation walk away you
Know they’re asking you a question just walk away you obviously can’t do that but but it shows who you are it really shows a lot about who you are and do you have integrity you know if you can do that online to someone I I wouldn’t
Personally be able to do that I feel like I would at least like to leave someone with an explanation so they don’t go out into the world feeling bitter and resigned and feeling like you know what people just they just don’t see me as a person and you’re right
Because the the person on the other you know on this on the other side of that we don’t even we don’t think of people as people anymore if you’re on a dating up you’re thinking whoa I don’t care I just don’t feel like talk I just I don’t
Feel like answering you know I invited her him on a date but now I I don’t feel like showing up so just I’m just gonna I’m just gonna do nothing about it right back in the day you would generally meet someone through friends or because they
Were your neighbors so there was a kind of community feeling and uh in a way that made this person I mean you you basically knew who they were your friends knew who they were accountability accountability matter sort of accountability yeah that’s so yeah that’s so funny that you mentioned that because like recently
That happened to two friends of mine they met through a friend I was like oh do people still do that these days it was just like so it has become so uncommon and it’s just like yeah actually like and even I feel like we lost the art of like also making matches
You know like looking at our friends and be like oh this person could go well with this person cuz we don’t want to interfere or create like something that is I but like people used to do that in the past and it was very obvious what
Was going on you know um I guess now because we have dating apps that are very like you know why you AR there it feels like everything outside of dating apps has to be like 100% natural but no like back in the days like things were very coded very regulated and like
Regulated in the sense that yeah when you say this you expect that and when you meet this or that friend there’s an expectation that they might get along so it’s just like yeah yeah like let’s not pretend that everything is is natural when it’s like outside of dating apps
Obviously like all those CS that we have on on dating apps those hidden rules they exist in real life as well and like maybe we should as friends also encourage those those connections dating con like romance or even friendships like make those friends connect you know don’t be scared that they won’t get
Along and if they don’t get along then that’s it but like create those connections because people actually crave them like we want to meet new people especially in cities we want to meet new people we want to find um a potential romantic partner and it’s just you know like recently what happened is
That a friend of mine connected to of our friends together and it was starting to look like it was going to go into a relationship and then one of the person didn’t behave very well and so it kind of ended and my friend who made the connection was feeling very sad very
Anxious cuz she was like I’m responsible for this and I was like it’s okay like there are two responsible adults you did something you at least you try to make that connection and that’s so fine and actually like you shouldn’t feel bad and you shouldn’t stop doing that because
Like maybe one day will work and it worked for me and I I mean it worked it worked for a year for me and my ex now but um so yeah like you know it’s we should normalize those things really yeah I feel like we should normalize having more interaction with
People in general I mean loneliness is is an epidemic it’s there are so many lonely people out there when I look at the news and a lot of things that are happening like happening in Czech Republic uh yesterday I just feel like it’s all a byproduct of the fact that we
Are bitter lonely uh and you know and and and without getting off topic because I do want to get back to uh France and and French culture but I think it’s that when you’re that lonely and you’re so bitter against people and you get all your source of information
From Tik Tok and Instagram and like uh all the opinions that you see there it’s so very easy to to start thinking that the world is like this it’s it’s women that are expecting a man to make 100K you know whatever a year or it’s like people that have these incredible
Standards it’s like well I’m just going to die alone I hate the world I hate women I hate men I you know so it’s it’s just like we’re we’re really dividing people up and we’re we’re creating a really angry world I believe yeah yeah and I mean like if you because like a
Lot of users online of Tik Tok Instagram Etc are young people and the the main characteristic about being young and I’ve been there myself you’ve been there too so like we’re not talking as like patronizing or anything we’ve been there it’s you you don’t have a lot of experience of life experience you
Haven’t gone through a lot of dating or or things like that so like your experience will be the internet and I’m very guilty of that like remember as a teen I didn’t have many friends and so the internet was like oh this is life you know like I learned about so many
Different sort of yeah life experiences Etc but the thing is that now that algorithms are like so well defined they will show you what you want to see so they will if you’re into like oh yeah a man is supposed to provide and blah blah they will show you all the manosphere
Stuff even if you didn’t ask for it actually they’re going to show you the manosphere bunch of people did that experiment where they go uh they go on Tik Tok or like even YouTube shorts and it’s like they scroll like four times and they’re already like
On a manosphere uh yeah men need to do this and women need to do that type of thing it’s like it’s it’s insane so obviously like when you don’t have that sort of life experience that confidence in yourself as well because like as you date as you meet people you build
Confidence you learn more about what you like and what you don’t like when you don’t have that of course you’re G to be prayed through all those online discourses and and you see your video you see like the one million views and like many many people liked and many
People commented and you’re like oh yeah that that must be true well actually no like no that is not true that is maybe some people will believe that and will agree with that but again it’s just like ah it’s not that one random person like being asked on the street it’s like
Compare with different different cultures compare with like different people compare with your own experience um so yeah I guess like one way to sum sum it up would be like to go out and touch grass just like go out and experiment for yourself you know like don’t believe what’s what’s on the
Internet and I feel like it sounds very patronizing to say that but I’m telling myself as well CU some sometimes I get caught up in those things where it’s like oh my gosh like this is what is going on and then for second I step back
And I talk to friends or people in real life and I’m like oh actually nobody cares about this thing that seems like so huge on the internet um so yeah yeah I think like uh I don’t know if you if you’re aware of this post but a few
Weeks ago this post went viral maybe a few months maybe I just catch up late uh and it was about American women and how they there was a list of places that was deemed acceptable by American women uh for the first date and it was basically
A list of you know of like like don’t take me to Starbucks don’t take me to chipot there don’t take me here don’t take me here don’t take me and it was a giant list of places that men couldn’t take them and it just you can’t help but
Like how it evokes emotion because you’re like man they’re so entitled you know and so I can imagine a man going through that list and being like Oh well now I don’t want to date women I don’t want to date American women because they’re all like this they’re all entitled
Right and and you get that right because that kind of controversial content that goes viral you probably can see that with your own videos the more the content is the more people react to it the more reactions the more virality it has so of course that’s what we see when
We log on to Tik Tok and is you’re right like if I’m watching a video about like a red pill video um then that’s kind of the content that’s going to get shown to me and so I’m gonna start putting everyone in the same category oh all men
Are like this they’re all gonna ghost they’re all flaky they all don’t want a relationship I’m never going to find someone I hate men I don’t want to be in a relationship with one and same thing with men you know all women are [ __ ] all women want a man who makes this much
Money uh they’re all demons essentially so we’re like now we all hate each other but we haven’t actually got to know each other right we’re just putting each other in categories and we’re hating the whole group of people that we don’t actually know we haven’t talked to them
Yeah I feel like one of the biggest issue with that is how much We crave boxes we just want to have labels we want boxes and it’s not just like again not limited to dating is even as like a video essayist who’s always trying to
Bring a little bit of nuance or like to complexify things or to be like hey there’s no right or wrong answer I see how often people will comment but what would you do about that like what would be the solution I’m like I actually don’t know like you can come up with
Your own Solutions and I remember like as a teen when I was trying to figure out like how you’re supposed to talk to uh boys or like how you supposed to because obviously like you don’t know and you want to you want to have some advice like the video videos who would
Work the the the most were not like the videos on like helping with dating it was more like what girl uh what girls want in a boy like what guys want in a girl it’s like oh yeah this is exactly what I want I want to know exactly what
They want so I can have like a little list and it’s like it this is how we operate like we want very very clear answers and I feel like like as a society we need to to resist this temptation to just go for the lazy Solutions the the the the that
Is given to us like that like so easily in the matter of like 5 Seconds no like again like going back to what we said earlier figuring out what you like and uh the the sort of person you want to date and what you’re attracted to takes
Time it takes a lot of um yeah like a lot of uh introspection a lot of uh communication as well with others friends um or Partners like it takes a lot of time it’s complex and even if you think you are a certain way you might
Discover a long like down the line that you are completely different and what I like about dating now and something I’m very more much more open to is actually like openness being open to discover new things you know so that’s why I’m kind of aunti um all those things like the
The Love Languages or things like that it’s not that I’m ATI those things but everything that like super strict like I’m like this or I’m like that I behave like this therefore I need that sort of person it’s like no no no like how do you know maybe you think you are like
That now but like maybe in two years you’re going to find someone that’s going to change you completely and then you know so like constantly rediscovering yourself constantly like asking yourself questions and resisting the urge to just go for the easy answers which usually will be kind of you know like if
We like it’s it’s not surprised that all that the the the easy answers often like go in the direction of men are providers men are this men are that because whatever and women are supposed to be feminine and blah BL blah like this is this is what we’ve been taught for for
Generations and generations so obviously like when we are looking for the easy answer we’re going to be drawn to those those type of easy answers and as a society we’re trying to go beyond that I mean just to make sure we are as inclusive and uh as you know like giving
An option to to to everybody really so yeah we really need to resist that when it comes to gender roles how how is it in France generally if you could summarize it that’s really interesting um it is it is very interesting actually it’s very hard to I made a video about
It because like I was myself struggling to explain it when people would ask me like hey like well because it feels like France is a very Li liberated country in terms of like sexuality um dating Etc but for me that Liberation is happening in the the bigger frame of patriarchy
And what I mean by that is that the way women are liberated or the way dating is liberated is always going to go always going to benefit the man so for example when we talk about like you know French actresses and like how liberated they were yeah but like there were very prey
To what we call the male gaze you know it was always about being desirable to men so short skirts perfect cage perfect go girl dress as you like but it’s always seeking the mail gaze you know like always like respon to what is desirable for men um I’m thinking about
You know the icons like bri Bardo or people like that who are still seen as like feminist icons I mean now if you listen to what they say about women it’s just very very scary um so there’s that and then for dating you’re like oh yeah infidelity is way more tolerated but for
Who you know like for men or for women as well nah mostly for men when a woman is is uh cheat on on her boyfriend or husband like it’s not very well so it’s like yeah perfect liberated great but for who and in which sort of framework
Um so yeah I’ve heard that a lot of times women judge women more than men judge women have you heard of this that like women oftentimes they’re they’re quite sexist as well like they could be like oh well she looks like this so she’s like that you know because of the
Sense of competition as well and then just putting each other down in a way what do you think do you mean like uh in Frances particular or like just around the world just as no no that’s that’s very true and like that’s something that is kind of hard to
Come to terms with especially as as a feminist because it’s like oh yeah like it would be ideal to have a world where all women are like um you know helping each other there’s a strong solidarity or sorority as we now uh call it and I feel like we’re moving progressively
Towards that like I used to be someone who would look down on women a lot because I was raised by a woman uh by a my mother was what we call like a not like the other girls she wanted to not represent everything that is to represent a women like femininity makeup
Um sometimes like playing a bit DMS to you know Elevate men or things like that she was like no no no I’m not doing that I’m strong um I don’t dress feminine and blah blah so she she kind of passed that on on to me as well so as I’ve said
Multiple times like I grew up hating the idea of a woman you know like what we associate with with women femininity or things like that I wanted to be good at sports I wanted to be good at math I wanted to I didn’t necessarily look down
On women but I I just as for myself like I didn’t want to look like that you know I wanted to be as manly as possible and then I later realized that when it comes to dating you have to look feminine you know it’s not because the boy the boys
Look down on girls as like oh they’re stupid or they can’t do this or they can’t do that that’s later on they won’t date these girls because you know that that feeling of superiority then translates into into dating you want a girl who looks feminine you want a girl
Who is kind of fragile you want a girl who um who who less small than you because you want to feel Superior so that that was an interesting sort of thing that that happened to me but um yeah in terms of like the sort of hatred towards towards women I feel it stems
From that you know it’s like hey you’re supposed to act this way you’re supposed to look fragile you’re supposed to do so whenever a woman try to you know challenge the stereotypes or represent something different there’s a little bit of competition there and the other way
Around you know like like me it was the the sort of distaste I had for this idea of what a woman is supposed to be is is a form of internalized misogyny I looked down on woman I had internalized the fact that being a woman being feminine
Was not good bad less uh inferior to what manhood was really it’s it’s something it’s a conversation I have very often with uh older women I feel like younger women are way more aware of like the the power of sorority the necessity for sorority the fact that you
Know like there’s a lot of pressure on us so let’s not put more pressure like as women you know let’s let’s help each other but of course limits to that you know especially in the workplace um so so many women complaining that yeah women in the workplace can be really
Really mean specifically because you have this sort of competition you are in a male dominated environment and so you can adopt those those those those values and you yeah like put that pressure on on other women so that’s very real like that’s very real and we should not deny
It yeah they did a study I don’t know if you’ve heard of it but basically they they put women in the room and they they had uh you know these girls come in and uh they they had one girl that looked very sexy and they just kind of
Looked at the reaction of women uh when the girl walked by and I think they they tested I I I’m not going to say the number because I don’t know the number but it was quite large number of women and the reaction was always always judgmental very judgmental just
You know sexy girl walking through and that was something really interesting I wonder if it’s because there’s like we’re all fighting over limited resources like oh well I you know I need to find a partner and so uh I need to look better than her I need to be better
Than her I find with men typically men are a lot more upfront about it so if there’s competition between men they’ll they’ll just like fight it out they’ll talk it out they’ll say something but women we’re a lot more um passive aggressive in a way that we’ll be like
Oh you look so beautiful and then we’ll talk behind her back women do that quite a lot uh you know and I’ve noticed this you know competitiveness even in my own life where I was in a relationship and a friend of mine was in a relationship and I
Remember she would often talk about how great her relationship is making me feel that my relationship was inferior she probably wasn’t a very good friend uh or you know if you’re both single then it’s kind of you’re going out uh to a bars and and and and you feel it you feel
That sense of competitiveness like who’s going to get approached more who’s going to get more looks so it’s it’s always this like strive of you know who who’s going to get picked that’s why I don’t want to say this but I find female friendships to be quite complicated you
Really need to be very good friends for that not to affect your relationship yeah I think it’s it’s it’s a very interesting question and definitely something I’ve uh because my female friendship groups for group for example and all my female friendships are very very supportive like we would never drag
Each other down and we very much work on it as well because like sometimes we have those feelings that you’ve just described where I don’t know like a female friend of mine will come into the room and like she’s so so sexy like she’s dressed so so well and I’m just
There’s a little bit of something in me being like yeah like get some remin of like oh she’s the hottest girl in the room you know that that’s sort of thing that I personally have have a lot like yeah when I go into a room there’s this tendency to immediately compare to other
Women and see am I the hottest girl in the room or like is there and it’s so so wrong it’s so so wrong but it’s something that we desperately need to work on and like we’re fighting against gosh so much like like for years for decades for centuries we’ve been told that what
Matters to us like as a women is to look good so like how can you expect that all of a sudden we’re going to forget about that and like we won’t impose that on other women too because like go the comments are like oh she gain weight you
Know like that the sort of very little comments that like oh no I’m not like it’s not a an insult or whatever but just the fact that that’s the first thing that comes to mind when you see that person instead of saying I know like oh she seems very much she seems
Very happy compared to last time or she seems very depressed which is you know it’s it’s immediately going back to to physique and I feel like yeah we we definitely even though sometimes we’ll say oh yeah I love my girlfriends and blah blah blah like do you really did
You really like work on all that you know again like sort of internalized misogyny that that you have within you and that you are expressing right now by pointing at all those physical characteristics of this person um I feel like women who tend to do that are those
Who feel the less confident who have the L least self-confidence because when you’re confident in your body and you know you’re happy with the way you look or why would you why would you like start criticizing others really like everybody’s doing great we’re all looking gorgeous and blah blah blah and
I love this personalities as well like you know like women who will come into a room and be like you’re gorgeous you’re gorgeous you’re gorgeous I’m gorgeous too and I’m like yes that’s the sort of energy we need to to to you know to promote that’s that’s the sort of
Friendships I want to have I feel like I’m surrounded by women kind of like that but uh yeah a lot of a lot of work to do for us like Still Still Still till um and I see it even with my mom like sometimes the way she she will talk
About like women on screen or whatever oh why is she wearing a clivage like that well maybe because she’s kind of she has to you know maybe she there’s a little bit of pressure there or maybe she’s aware that her role on that show is to look good and so she’s trying her
Best to fulfill that role it’s just like there’s so many things that we internalize that we learn as women and that we then need to to deconstruct and I guess the best way to do that is also to to do that with your friends and be
Honest of you know hey like sometimes I feel like a little bit intimidated or sometime I feel a little bit of jealousy towards you and the way you look or whatever like talk to them tell them because like maybe they feel exactly the same way and you just don’t know and
Like just by by sharing that um with each other you may be able to to overcome it as well yeah that’s a great point and you’re lucky to have very good friends and you’re right like a lot of us do feel insecure in our own way we look at
Someone else and we feel like they have it all together but they’re feeling exactly the same way do you feel like uh French uh Society is quite judgmental this is something that I’ve heard from quite a lot of people what do you think I think so yeah I think so but at the
Same time because uh Ario you mentioned you know like um I think you mentioned like American women or American people in general being like like oh yeah you’re gorgeous or blah and then once you leave the room it’s like a totally different discourse um so I feel like
Maybe we’re more judgmental but maybe this is just like honesty you know like maybe we’re a bit more honest and straightforward or um because like for example when I look for advice or or when I’m wearing something and I’m asking my friend like hey do I look good
In this and if I can tell like she’s not being honest I’m like be honest with me okay even if that’s mean and maybe we’re more okay with that honesty as well cuz like we’re more used to it so that would maybe be a reason why we’re told that
We’re judgmental but I mean yeah like there’s a lot of judgment especially between yeah women um the ls the the the it’s just like yeah I don’t know if it’s specific to to France that sort of hatred between between women or but like I guess with French culture something
That would be specific of of French culture is the thinness the fat phobia is like really really strong because we have this idea like whenever you think about the French girl it’s like a tall very slim women like smoking cigarettes and like you it seems that they never work
Out it seems that they never eat it seems like um so it’s like yeah if you don’t fit that sort of ideal of the French girl then you’re not a French girl and people will let you know it’s like you don’t you yeah you don’t deserve that title you don’t deserve to
You have to be slim you have to be white you have to look eff faultlessly pretty your skin must be amazing it’s like all those those things and again like again stereotypes that needs to be unlearned and like the the French girl french culture French love is like so so
Romanticized and every time I have the opportunity to kind of no that’s not what we are or like uh there’s more way more diversity than that I I do it really like in conversations with people all over the world because the stereotypes like we internalize them and
I see it myself like when I’m abroad um I tend to perform the French girl way more than when I’m at home you know and that’s something that I find very interesting like I’ll start yeah like acting a little bit more elegant dressing a bit more elegant or uh not
Necessarily smoking but like I don’t know even my accent like it’s just very weird but like I’ve talked about it with all the people it’s like yeah I tend to perform like all the stereotypes about my country or like even in dating especially in dating um when I’m abroad
And I just find so funny the way that we yeah we reproduce those things in sometimes ways that can be harmful really yeah I think it’s because there is an association of French people as being elegant and you know and uh uh charming and sexy in this kind of
Mysterious and aloof way and so I get that completely because uh whenever you’re you’re painted as something you’re like well people must want me to be that because it’s it’s exotic for it’s exotic for them and it’s kind of something that they find very attractive so you play into that stereotype I
Remember going on dates with guys who which I try not to do they I’m I’m I’m originally Eastern European I’m Russian but I moved when I was 12 so I don’t really consider myself very Eastern European or very Canadian I’m kind of right in between but when you go to date
With someone who is like oh you’re Russian yeah Russian girls are soex like oh man so are you expecting me to then play into that should I you know so should I should I play into that now because that’s considered sexy and uh I’ve talked to a lot of you know
Women from Brazil they they get really pigeon hold into that like sexy Brazilian girl and so then that then you perform as that sexy Brazilian girl because that’s your that’s the stereotype and so I can see that as a French woman as well that that’s kind of
Like oh well they think I’m exotic they think I’m this I should I should not disappoint them yeah because it’s like so with some guys in particular it’s like it it it seems that that country where you come from whether it’s French whether you’re Asian whether you’re
Brazilian or it’s like it becomes your entire identity with some men like I’m not saying not all men not all men but uh with some men it’s it’s like are you dating me or are you dating Alice the French girl you know it’s like everything will be yeah everything Al Al
Yeah everything will become like just hey like showing pictures of bagat or whatever like I don’t care H ly like I just just be you and treat me like a normal human being like I’m trying my best to like you know fit in your culture and like not look too French so
Please like just don’t don’t remind me of this all the time but again yeah like it’s such a common common experience like I I’ve talked with um you know they given the J Japanese uh women like the way they’re expected to be submissive quiet cute all the time it’s
Like I remember this this this person who said like I can’t even shout like I can’t even be angry cuz like all of a sudden it’s like what you’re supposed to be the Japanese woman being like all cute and shy and blah blah it’s like oh
Come on like can we go beyond the stereotypes and uh but yeah luckily like uh I’ve met a lot of men who you know make an effort not to bring it back to to that all the time and to be fair like sometimes it’s kind of funny as well
Like to play into that a little bit play into the stereotypes and as long as it’s just like temporary you know it doesn’t turn into your entire identity to the point where it just like turns into fantasization or whatnot but yeah yeah I see that a lot with French men when they
Come to let’s say other countries whenever you look at their online profile there’s always a glass of wine there and it’s like I really like to drink Z Vine and you’re like oh my God and when when you were talking I was thinking maybe I’ve done this to men as
Well because I remember going out on dates with French guys and like do you want to listen to charlot na on the rooftop while we look at Z Moon I’m like oh yes they cuz they know it works they know it they do that’s why they do it
And that’s why like I you know that’s why I kept on telling my students like Irish students or English or whatever um beware beware of the French man like just be careful because like every time I heard the story of oh yeah I met this frenh guy in Paris I’m
Like what did he say to you like who how did he present himself did he he listen to French songs or like I’m just very very aggressive because I know them and I know that tricks um what just be careful just just be careful because
Yeah know as you said like the glass of wine the oh my God the poems but like they’ll sing in French or write poems in French so as a as a foreigner you have no idea what it means and it’s just like oh my gosh this sounds so
Gorgeous because like it’s in French or whatever but it’s just yeah men love to to objectify themselves as well like as sort of like the French Seducer and ah it’s something I’ve seen definitely definitely I’ve not NE necessarily seen But as you said like the the the profile um on dating apps
With the the wine and just the pictures and it’s like oh I see you I see you I’ve been around people like you my entire life I see what you’re doing there um so yeah be careful girlies with the the French boys yeah I think that’s something that happens when we when we
Stereotype a country and we put really positive stereotypes on a country where was like France obviously it’s the country of love a french guy know that I’m assuming that French women wouldn’t really fall for that because obviously they’re French they know all the tricks they’re like you can’t really seduce me
With that you know but when it’s an American girl coming to Paris she’s like oh my God this is you know he’s a sexy you chose the perfect name yeah yeah and and you know and like we have so many movies and and so many shows like Emily and Paris that very much
Promote that stereotype have you have you seen Emily in Paris I did yeah I think I saw most of the series right most of the Season sorry most of the yeah I did yeah wow what what was your impression are you expecting some comments on that of course I was of
Course I was like disappointed because it’s it’s a very very filtered very romanticized uh version of Paris where characters only in evolving like two around these small so like two areas and those areas in Paris are very small like it’s it’s just where yeah where rich
People live and but I mean it’s okay at the same time because it’s like they’re trying to sell a fantasy and people are coming for it and I do understand that sometimes we just want entertainment and we’re not trying to understand like all the class and social inequalities and
Blah blah blah so I’ll definitely make a video on it and I did um about the fact that we don’t talk about class in Emily in Paris even though the characters come from very different background and like why they all involving but anyway that’s that’s another topic but more generally
Speaking Yeah I felt like it ticked all the the stereotypes in terms of dating um I can’t remember the name of the the guy like the the French guy he she she falls in love with uh neither can I neither can I he’s like the main Chef the chef
The chef yeah who’s now like a very active uh climate activist actually um so very happy about that but yeah like it’s it’s just so cre and I remember like posing on some of the the dialogues and like sending it to friends being like just just tell me this is not the
The way you see us like French people just tell me please because this is this is not possible like this is too bad um but yeah I had a lot of fun watching it what I love is that the entire show uh all the French people they’re speaking
English amongst themselves I love that when they’re just like having a conversation they’re just speaking English the whole time I’m like have you been to friends with the accent and also I absolutely love that she somehow on the salary that she’s getting is able to deck herself out and new outfits every
Single day like the the most expensive and and I also love her Instagram posting where she just snaps a photo puts a cute caption on it and sends it I’m like I wish it was this easy I put a lot of on my Instagram but like if I
Could snap a photo and be like hey guys just sing a song and if I could get that many likes on it that’s what I what I content content creators like could see the b esta we we could see it we saw it we saw the the very basic pictures going
Viral and we’re like no this show is fake from start to finish it’s just like it’s not possible but yeah it’s I don’t know at the same time I I kind of I think that’s why I enjoy about the show really like the fact that it was like
Too so fake that there was no way to just yeah I just like put your put your brain on pause just like enjoy the the consume all the entertainment that you can and just yeah I guess but but like I would be frustrated if some people think that that’s that’s the experience that
They would get in Paris because I know that because of the TV series um tourism in Paris increased a lot like they created a million Paris tours and things like that um I know that people living in those areas were very angry as well because usually there
Were uh very old old Rich parisians oh what is going on all those Americans coming to Paris and blah blah blah what do you enjoy and enjoy let’s say what is something that you enjoy most and least about living in Paris Ah that’s a good question because
Um I think the thing that I enjoy the least would be parisians is kind of bad because there are a lot of them in Paris for some reasons um H because it’s just I don’t know um yeah coming from the north of France and learning about the way parisians see
Us for example kind of created that sort of from the basis like I was like I don’t like nobody likes parisians really like it’s it’s a common thing like when you live outside of Paris you don’t like people living in Paris and vice versa um
So I guess there was that and then just the accent that is sounds very boura very like towards the end of sentences and it’s just like I can’t do this um or maybe also the the fact that they live together very closely and they don’t interact much with people outside of the
City or sometimes they feel like they are you know in the middle of where things are happening because like people come to Paris from all over the world and blah blah so they they feel like they live in a place that is Multicultural Etc but they don’t actually very much interact with when
You compare to because obviously again like I’ve traveled to many different places so I feel like I have the legitimacy to to to compare and to criticize when I go to New York for example when I go to London these are cities that are also Multicultural but people really mix you
Know like people from all backgrounds from from various um ethnic backgrounds as well in France you don’t have that as much I feel or at least like your identity your background is not something that you should put forward you know like you can be black you can
Come from this or that country but it’s like don’t like we’re not it’s not that we’re not interested in that it’s just like we’re in Paris we’re in France and you know I feel like it’s not something that is encouraged you’re not encouraged to talk about your background as much as
In cities like New York or London where it’s like sometimes your background is like everything that matters and like people will know where you come from from and like uh what sort of challenges you face in your life Etc so that’s one thing I don’t
Like uh but one thing I like about Paris obviously it’s just like everything is more chilled you always have people having a glass uh outside on the terce you know like the famous uh the ter really and um yeah it’s it’s super Lively it’s very easy to to to meet
People as well in bars Etc it’s just yeah the the approach of life the way they balance work in life is is way healthier than in compared to to other big cities I I’ve been true when you say you don’t really like parisians what do you mean what what specifically is something that
Irks you is it a sense of is it arrogance is it a sense of entitlement superiority yeah I would say entitlement I think I would say entitlement and maybe the belief maybe ignorance of what again like what multiculturalism and what living in a big city should be or
And for me what it should be it means living in the big city is about like meeting people from all backgrounds like connecting all those cultures and learning from those cultures and I feel like in Paris and parisians they think they do that but they don’t really you
Know like they don’t really try to expand their Horizons or learn about different cultures or learn about different people it’s it’s very much about France France coach French culture French food all of that again I don’t want to like stereotype or generalize but I feel like it’s a general Trend
That I’ve noticed uh in comparison to all the big cities yeah I’ve heard also that Apartments have very thin walls is this true that you your neighbors uh I’m very lucky because like where I live um pretty much all the other apartments are I think it’s old people I think my
Building is full of old people so it’s very very quiet it’s super quiet but it’s that most of my friends complain that yeah you can hear like a an argument happening like right next to you or but again like it’s I feel like it’s part of the the French culture as well it’s
Like your private life is not very private it’s like you can have an argument in the middle of the restaurant with your friends talking about politics um it is just very common for people to just Express their emotions out loud in the public sphere or in the private
Sphere but with very thin wall and you’re very aware that the walls are very thin so you you know that the neighbor is is going to hear everything and I feel like maybe that’s that’s a defining feature about like U Parisian life or French life in general is like
We we love the drama and we love to share it as well with other people it’s interesting because even um I was in Montreal um I was planning to move there at one point and even in Montreal they have this French neighborhood and I was living in one of the one of the
Apartments and the walls were super thin and even there you get the French people like smoking and talking really loudly late at night and I would go up and say guys can you be quiet they’re like oh okay but that they continue smoking the whole night and I could hear them and I
Could hear them walking I could hear them talking I guess like it’s it’s maybe a lifestyle thing as well it’s like um yeah you’re supposed to be talking all the time or you’re supposed to be living all the time or like again like this sort of breaking the barrier
Between private and public life which is so so common and again you see it like when you go in the streets of Paris like people have are having a drink outside people even like in the winter you know like there’s no season to go to go
Outside and get a drink outside and uh people are having parties in there it’s just like the windows are open is yeah there are many good things about it you know I really like that about Paris the fact that contr to London where everything is like shut down and
Everything happens behind doors it’s like opening onto the world but as you say like there are some uh you know like some problems with that as well like respecting other people’s need for quiet and things like that that’s important too um so maybe we need to work on that
A bit more going to Spain for example Spanish people tend to be very loud and so when you’re trying to sleep and they’re screaming outside your window at like 4 in the morning you’re thinking I don’t want any part of this but then you move somewhere and you’re living let’s
Say in Canada where it’s on the opposite scale like maybe like London it’s it’s incredibly quiet and oftentimes feels very structured as well um for for for instance here in order to get alcohol you need to go to specific like government owned store you wouldn’t be
Able get wine in just a regular store it’s very much like Sweden you know we have the same rules around alcohol and so even drinking is incredibly structured you’re not able to just drink somewhere you need to drink in spe specified zones and uh the whole life is
Kind of it’s too organized in a way where it’s comfortable but you also tend to I I guess it’s quite lonely as well I feel like in in these kind of places like London or um you know maybe Toronto is is another good example of that even
Like the amount of markets there in Paris like it’s insane and the other day I was at at the market actually I was uh uh for preparing a little breakfast with friends and um there was this woman who was talking to the to the lady selling
The fruits thata it lasted for like 10 minutes I believe but she was just talking and talking and talking I was like oh yeah it’s great that those places exist you know those places where people are outside socializing because like you can strike up a conversation with them anytime or you can
And for people who feel lonely and usually you don’t see them because like they won’t go out and stuff like that like this is a good opportunity to even if they won’t talk to you or even if they just sit down and have a coffee and and read the newspaper they will listen
To someone else conversation and it’s like it’s still like a a form of socializing in a way so I know like for older people um you know the I think there’s a a few Instagram uh pages on like old French men you know sitting on little benches with their newspapers and
Just like listen to whatever is going on and I find it so cute and like that’s why I love as well with with with this country you’re going to make me love this this this uh this city Paris I’ve been complaining about it like so much
But now I’m just like this is amazing like everybody’s like outside living their life and stuff but I guess yeah like that’s that’s kind of true and um that’s something thing I really like about Paris yeah I mean every city that we choose there’s positives and there’s
Negatives um right and we often tend to focus on the negatives uh I find myself doing that as as well but talking about the not so positive thing um so let’s talk about infidelity really quickly so something some really interesting statistics I found that I think about
46% of French men specifically do cheat or have admitted to cheating and 38% of women so there’s 10% difference or sorry 8% difference but what’s interesting is that compared to Americans that find cheating on a partner unacceptable 84% of the time only 47% of the French has
Said that they found it unacceptable as well so what do you think about that no that’s so funny that’s exactly the stats that my friend brought up my British friend when we were having this discussion because I was like no like it’s okay like people are okay with
Infidelity and it was like no it’s a French thing like it’s only French people I was like oh come on and then he showed me the stats and I was like oh okay yeah that’s that’s true okay interesting um I guess yeah it’s again this sort of I mean ideally would be us
Understanding that you don’t own another person you don’t own their body and therefore you know it’s okay if they you know sex and love are two separate things um that would be the ideal vision of and I guess a lot of people believe that you know but I feel like again like
What is tolerated for men is not tolerated as much for women so I feel like a lot of women come to terms with the fact that yeah maybe hubby is going to you know cheat on me at some point and and it’s okay more than hey like sex and love are two different
Things and you know this sort of progressive way of looking at at at dating or relationship so yeah I guess it’s just like something that’s been promoted in the media in the cinema um in cinema Etc it’s like this yeah French men cheat women do as well it’s not as
Much represented on TV but it’s just like yeah French men cheat and it’s just like it’s just a thing like and like it it’s it’s tolerated very much like the there sort of commitment there’s not as much commitment um and this is seen as something that is kind of normal in a
Way yeah I find it even interesting when you watch American movies because whenever they show uh scenes where let’s say the husband cheats on the wife it it’s always a really big deal and usually they’ll have a conversation they’ll they’ll break up they’ll divorce uh someone’s going to cry really hard
Over it uh I don’t know how it’s portrayed in French movies I don’t remember seeing that but do you I feel like it has something to do as well with French kind of being seeing love through grayish tones in in terms of like well let’s be a realistic you know love is
Love but passion comes and goes and so you know I can love you but that doesn’t mean that I’m going to be monogamous I’m not going to be with one person my entire life that’s kind of real unrealistic as well as a standard whereas like Americans are like no no
We’re together so there’s more of a sense that it doesn’t matter what’s realistic this is the happy end to to the relationship that is often shown in the movies as well like we right off into the sunset the end yes so I guess maybe the what what you’re trying to to
Say is like the sort of maybe being more conscious that’s love or long-term love or longterm passion is sort of an illusion and that for that reason like once the passion is kind of over and like the sort of excitement you have with like oh this body like I’m so
Attracted to this body once that is over it’s okay to go and look for that with with other people maybe maybe that’s true maybe we do have that sense of this more realistic view on on love and the fact that you know you fall in love but
You fall out of love and that it’s okay in a way I don’t know like it would be interesting actually to look at the uh as you mentioned like um once there’s an act of infidelity in a movie how is that resolved and what is the sort of you
Know like uh what sort of characteristic or uh uh connotation would do we attach to the person that cheats um is it cheating for love and therefore you know what like I wanted to make a video on it but maybe I will um on the fact that one
Of the most precious beloved um movie romance is Titanic and Titanic is about a woman like you know cheating on her husband with with a younger kid you know like so this is kind of problematic like this is kind of bad but again like this
Is seen as like such a romantic story so you know there’s a lot of things of to to to reflect on that and I feel like Titanic is it could have been a French movie because the sort of story of like the the woman falling in love with
Someone else and then questioning her relationship and like living eventually but it’s like it’s still okay because it’s love and like we understand it I feel like this would be way more common whereas in American movies or things like that it’s like infidelity like this
Person is now bad for the rest of their lives and it’s like they can’t change they’re just a bad person person um yeah maybe there’s something to to to look into there but I think it’s interesting because you know Americans they made her husband the bad guy in the
End like they really pushed that that he was like he was like a bad person he he took the boat he made you know uh I do feel like in most let’s say even European movies the happy ending is not guaranteed uh a lot of times the ending
Is just it’s like what just happened and something I found really interesting and I don’t know if you you know of a sexologist Esther Perell she she’s wonderful and she’s uh she’s Belgian she’s not French but she wrote a book called mating in captivity which is wonderful and it talks about the fact
That uh specifically for let’s say Americans um the notion of having sex is very much regulated it’s like well we need to have sex this amount of times you know or our relationship isn’t going to be deemed normal uh whereas in in reality there’s no such thing it’s not
About the X amount of times that you’re going to have sex it’s the quality of the sex but it’s also the fact that when you are very close together when you’re very much in love that’s when you may lose the appetite for sex because you’re too much of the same person there
There’s no distance between you right so she talks about leaving that space that distance and she also talks about infidelity and and she shocked a lot of people by saying that yeah look if someone cheats on you it’s not necessarily the the the point for you to
To to break up with them you know you need to talk it over and see what the what the reason was what the issue was but it’s very much uh not to be expected but it it can be a part of the relationship that can happen whereas
Like I feel like in in America it’s very much oh you did that you crushed everything you we had you killed the whole relationship but it’s like no we were together 15 years before that did I really kill the whole relationship by cheating on you we did have those 15
Great years so that one slip up is that going to be a reason for us to completely end the the relationship so that’s something very interesting because it’s talking about the grayish tones of the relationship but not necessarily you did this one thing it’s over we’re
Done no no I do I I really admire her work and I remember watching it a lot when I was younger and trying to figure out like um all those things you know like trying to learn about like hey how to you do your relationship I’m have very much resonated with her approach
And as you say like a very nuanced very honest approach as well like she’s very very honest um with whatever topic she she she she Dives in and I feel like that’s why people love her so much as well because like Hey we’re all human beings like we are sometimes pray to
Temptation we do things that are wrong but as you said like does it really reflect like all this time that I’ve loved you and I continue to love you maybe I love you in a different way and that’s okay and we can talk about it as well because like sometimes yeah like
Your your love for someone will evolve it will start being something very passionate very something very physical and then if things move on it’s like oh I’m starting to lose that sort of physical attraction then but this is it is replaced with way more affection and
I see you differently and it’s like yeah things are evolving it’s normal that we you know I have a big issue with the idea that you commit to someone and you commit to that person the way they were at a specific moment and you’re expecting that person to remain the same
It’s I I don’t you know like a relationship is beautiful when you live space for people to evolve by themselves to grow to learn and yes maybe change to the point where you’re not compatible anymore you can’t you can’t own someone to the point where you’re just preventing them from yeah finding their
True self their authentic self and that means sexuality because like you know you can discover things about your sexuality your entire life like some people discovered that they’re quer at like you know way advanced in in in in their lives so it’s like living that space as you said that sort of distance
To to make sure that you have yeah you have that space to to grow as an individual and that is going to reflect in your relationship as well your relationship is going to be so much better if because what are you going to bring to the relationship if you’re not growing as an
Individual it’s just going to be circling back on like memories and like and saying to the other person I love you I love you but do you really love them like or you just love the fact that they belong to you that that is something that I ask myself a lot when
I’m in relationships like do I love this person or am I more attracted by the fact that I have that stability that comfort of having someone I can talk to or having someone I can socialize with anytime and that’s one of the reasons why I I I broke up recently actually
Because I felt like um I was not growing as an individual anymore I was just maybe relying too much on that relationship to yeah have my do of soci socialization and things like that and um I feel like yeah maybe that was that was something that that went wrong but
So I’m trying to change you know and it’s not because that’s that’s the thing it’s like my my a and I like we we get along we we’re friends like we we we have so much in common and I love this person I still love them but at the same
Time like I feel like they could grow as individual without me and I could continue to grow by myself as well and I feel like we need that distance in that case it means breaking up but like you can manage things while also remaining in that relationship but
That’s something I always tell my friends stuff said include distance include space in your relationship like that’s so so so so so important really yeah I I I think I I 100% agree with what you just said I you know what’s interesting is when people are asked
When they find their partner the most attractive do you know what they say what do they say well let me ask you that question when did you find your ex partner the most attractive or I don’t know if you’re currently in a relationship are you uh no no no no no
Okay so let’s talk about your ex- partner when did you find him the most attractive um and it’s it’s always the same thing with other people uh with people in general it’s when they do something that they are passionate about so playing sports doing something artistic just when when I can see them
Being very confident and be being very involved and passionate about what they’re doing that’s the moment where I’m like oh I love this person like I love what they do I love just like and I hate them the most I dislike them the most when they feel like they’re
Obsessed with me like just like way to invest in the relationship but like to a point where it’s just too much you know you feel like again like that lack of space lack of distance when they’re too into me like I’m just starting to lose lose interest in in in
The person I don’t know if that’s weird or what but like that’s that’s the way it works for me yeah exactly that so that was the that was the answer and and 100% it’s the same for me so I think that’s something very interesting because you know we can say that oh men
Feel like that but women feel like that as well you know we we we like we like people when we can see them with fresh eyes when we look at them when we say oh wow they’re really in their element they’re really enjoying what they’re doing other people are looking at them
Maybe uh other people are seeing them without all the baggage of their relationship without all all of that you know past experience and they don’t necessarily belong to me in that moment and so you see them through fresh eyes and that kind of reignites the
Attraction uh and I I think and that was the the most common answer a lot of times what we do uh and I think more so as women is that we really lose our self the relationship and that makes our partner typically lose attraction for us because we’re no longer our own person
We’re basically just an extension of them and that’s not very attractive so I think uh that’s something very very interesting about how it’s really important to preserve the your own independence your own set of hobbies growing as a person because if you’re not interesting to yourself you’re probably not going to be very
Interesting to other people either one of the reasons why I became a feminist um is because I looked back on like my experiences growing up in in the countryside being surrounded by a lot of Housewives or women who devoted a lot of time and energy to uh raising their
Children and I always tell tell about this uh tell people about this anecdote of me at my tennis club sitting at the table where all the the the women were all the mothers were and it took like five minutes before they started complaining about their husbands complaining about like all their lost
Opportunities the fact that they they were going to y but they had to stop because they needed to care about the children or they want to go on holidays but they can’t because their husband doesn’t want to and things like that and that was the moment where I’m like oh
That’s not normal you know they should be able to live the life they want really and even if they are happy the way they are I’m always like thinking about what could have be their lives if they they weren that those pressures and I feel like now it’s becoming more and
More common for for you know Housewives or or just women with children to to to have Hobbies so for example at my tennis club because um I’m also a tennis instructor uh we had more and more groups of women playing tennis and that was great that was amazing but at the
Same time it was not perfect because like after the tennis lesson they would have to go straight back home to take care of the kids while the husbands usually when they play they could stay for an extra drink or things like that so you could still see that sort of
Difference uh but I remember even recently I went to it was the in France we have uh one day where we celebrate music uh in June and um there was a group of women again like I would say 30 to 50 years old women uh playing instruments and things like that
And I was like I I really really love to see that that makes me very emotional because I know what a struggle it is for these women in particular who have children who usually have to take care of them more than their husbands who have to take care of the house Etc what
A struggle it is for them to be in that place to to to to do their hobbies and to to really enjoy and have a good time outside the home how outside the relationship and that makes them better human beings as well and I guess like that will reflect in their relationship
Um so yeah just Hobbies just cultivating those Hobbies cultivating an identity but again like I know I know how much of a struggle it can be for some people uh that it’s very easy to say that but sometimes yeah it’s it’s a bit more difficult but gosh it it really is a big
Deal really so we currently live in a world where women are very independent much more independent than ever and they many of them are rejecting the ideals of the past like getting married or having children how do you think this is affecting us as a society I definitely think it’s a good
Thing because with Independence comes and usually when we talk about independence obviously we talk about financial Independence so which brings more Independence because like yeah you can actually live a life by yourself you can uh skip the idea of you know uh settling down or having children I mean
Those can also be related to other Financial concerns but generally speaking like just being independent having your own career Etc um is is is a good thing um in terms of like the sort of feminism movement um now one thing that I do criticize is that maybe we
Went too far in that direction and when I say too far I mean that we’ve idealized this idea of oh yeah I’m a career woman I’m a girl boss that we kind of lost track of all the things that can make us happy free liberated because like a lot of women are coming
To terms with the idea that or just questioning the idea that Liberation can be fine through work because they go to work every day and it’s like H I’m not sure I’m enjoying this you know I feel like I’m being exploited uh I don’t feel happy overfill that work I just don’t
Like it I don’t feel liberated I was told I was going to be happy and independent and free but I’m I’m clearly not and that’s why I get concerned because like that’s precisely at that moment that some women will or man will use that we’ll use that doubt we’ll use
That unhappiness to promote a return to Traditional Values where it’s like oh you’re not happy at work then go back home and you’re GNA be happy in the kitchen and you’re gonna have a men taking care of you and blah blah blah so this is very scary um so I feel like
It’s important um and to connect to what we just said it’s really really important to show women that life is not just about work uh or it’s not just about Domesticity you know that they all the things it’s it’s not just I know like we’re told that this is our value
In society as a woman you make babies and you work you know in a capital Society that’s what what is expected from you um but but there are other things you can have a political life you can have an emotional life you can you know develop Hobbies you can meet
Friends that’s the thing I’m really big on that like make friendship find friends get out of that relationship or it’s not about like leaving your husband or leaving your boyfriend or whatever but like meet friends make friendship uh try to to prioritize that as much as
Possible um so yeah I feel like that that’s what I would say I feel like we we went maybe a bit too far in the gboss independent empowered type of thing and now we’re reflecting on this and we don’t really have any interesting alternative uh to to to explore and we
Need to find an alternative because otherwise Traditional Values are going to come back so yeah yeah I think it’s one or the other it seems like it’s either oh you have to be this you know badass girl Bo um and work like work like a man be like
A man or it’s that you have to be the Trad wife as as you mentioned in your book uh where you you sit in pretty clothing with glossy skin you yeah like these are obviously these are the these are the two extremes you know like the
Super duper girl boss and then the TRD wife like we are two extremes on one Spectrum but the Spectrum remain the same it’s either Domesticity or the girl boss and it’s like oh I want something else you know I want to bring something different to my life I don’t want my
Life to be centered around work work or Domesticity and often the two are connected because even the girl bosses like the Sher Sandberg who you know wrote the book linen which was like the Bible of feminism in in the 2010s I believe yeah um like even these women
Have at some point in their life they know that they’re gonna have children you know because I they need to do it you know you don’t even know I don’t I don’t even know if they really questioned like their their desire to have children or not but it’s just like
Yeah yeah you have to have uh children at some point so Domesticity is always like somewhere you know like it’s never fully lost like you’re never fully a girl boss like at some point you’re going to have to go back to that somehow um so yeah this is very interesting to
Me very concerning as well and I wish that yeah women explored different ways of being different ways of living outside this sort of very strict binary of work and Domesticity I think it it’s it’s it’s a complicated subject and you’re very right like in the book it was quite
Nuanced the way the way you explained it which I really enjoyed I think um I think it’s about for me personally it’s about living the life that you genuinely want to live and for me ideally it would be a combination of both uh I I because
You know for me personally I mean I’m in my 30s and priorities change quite a lot as you get older and not for everyone I think as well I think now there’s such a focus on living in the moments which I think is wonderful but we’re not really
Thinking as well what’s going to make me happy in 10 years so maybe nowadays I really like being the girl boss and for me personally I want to keep doing this my whole life like I I don’t see myself uh being a stay-at-home mom I love what
I do but I love what I do not everybody loves what they do and so for me I I want to keep doing this forever because I feel like it makes me an interesting person I’m learning a lot and it’s just I want to have my own um my own business but
Uh I think for other women maybe priorities are different like I know women they have no interest in working all they want to do is take care of kids and that’s fine I feel like if that makes them happy let them live their own life and and let them do their own thing
Um if that makes them happy if they’re not doing it because they have to because it’s you they’re pressured and so many societies pressure women into living a life that’s not true to their own where they they wake up at 80 and they have so many regrets about a life
That was just lived by someone else’s standards and I think like that for me the focus is living that kind of life I think what you said about community and having friends is very important because there’s so many studies done about us living a a way happier life and a longer
Life if we have that sense of community and we used to have Community back in the day we all lived in communities nowadays home signifies the four walls but before it used to be a whole group of people that supported us so we didn’t really get married for partnership
Necessarily was more you know an Arrangements but we had our friends to to to lean back on and we had that whole group of people that supported us and many societies still have that but we are loner than ever because we don’t have that sense of community we don’t
Have a relationship to people uh we’re just by ourselves and so um I think to each their own in my personal opinion uh but I think we are what happens with Society is like we go so far left then we go so far right in the end so it’s
Like we go to one end of the spectrum like no no badass you know kickass woman and then we’re like no no no no this is not working who let’s go all the way back and now promote a completely like polar opposite way of life no you see
What I find interesting there is that I think that what you say is totally valid and totally true like some some people have different desires the only thing I’m worried about and again it’s the same thing on that Spectrum you know it’s like because we live in a capital
Society neoliberalism so it’s all about the self it’s all about like the individual and you see it like in the it’s reflected in dating apps it’s reflected in everything that we create and what I’m worried about with like the rise of for example like uh you know TRD
Wives or things like that it’s like it’s a vision of motherhood that is very individualized it’s about I want to be a mother and I’m going to be a mother by myself in my little house lost in the countryside and what I fear about that is isolation social isolation and as you
Mentioned like in the past like um it was way more common to have like several Generations living in the same home or um you know like it was way more common for parents to uh die younger or to to you know like children to be sick or things like that
So like sometimes like an uncle or an aunt would take care of the kids so now like everything is so privatized so individualized that when someone says I want to be a housewife that means that they’re going to be very isolated and it is possible that it is not the case but
Because of the structure of society because of the way that you know it’s becoming harder and harder to you know you need someone else to to to to live in a place for example like uh you know prices are going up Etc so everything neoliberalism like all the those
Policies or the the constraint Financial constraints push us towards more and more more more isolation so in that context when someone says I want to be a housewife I want to you know like just let my husband provide for me and and and my family I’m always like be careful
Girl be be careful really because it doesn’t work like it used to do where you had a community where you could talk to uh and that’s why again I emphasized on friendships because like when you have a friend that means you have someone to talk to uh so if something
Goes wrong if your relationship is not doing well you know you have something someone you can talk to and someone’s going to say hey maybe it’s the right time to to live that relationship or maybe not fulfilled and as you said earlier like we I feel like sometimes
Like being a housewife also means as you said like you become an extension of of of your husband you just become like the emotional support of the entire family and therefore maybe you have time you struggle to to Define your own self to Define your own identity um but but
There are ways to do that um Again by valorizing friendship by being active in the community a lot of Housewives um uh I mean a a lot of social movements that exist were started by women who had the time to to you know like engage in those
Things because they had a husband to to rely on as well like usually like the the movement who the women who started the the big social movements who were part of social movements were the women who had time to invest in those things as well so these are all things to take
Into account and like I I like the fact that you bring that sort of historical aspect into it because yeah like saying I want to be a housewife or I’m a housewife a long time ago is not the same thing as today and I feel like
Because of that we need to be cautious like we need we need to to to to pay attention to to that and be as careful as possible with with the choices we make and why are we making these choices and what are the circumstances what does
That mean for me in my life to make that choice um but once the choices are informed like I’m not going to tell someone like this is bad you shouldn’t do this or you shouldn’t do that it’s more like yeah like if that’s really
What you want to do like and if you feel happy in doing this you know like it’s I’m not going to impose anything on you it’s like you live your life um I just want you to be aware of the choices you made yeah I’m always worried when
Something becomes a fad as you said if it’s an informed choice I very much respect that because again I’m not going to live your life you’re going to live with all the regrets that you’re going to live with right so if that’s something that you genuinely want to do
Do it but going online and of course telling everyone about it as that that’s the new thing to do I I never like FS because I feel like fats come and go and then uh people just they people are so lost in their life they’re looking for
Kind of the the the the way to go and so a lot of people are not even thinking through their decisions they’re just going with whatever is the the thing to do trending yeah the trends the whole concept of Trends I find incredibly just limiting they limiting
Exactly I mean even when we look at Tik Tok and oh now everyone’s doing that type of video I specifically never do that because sure it works really well for the algorithm but do I really want to be go viral because I follow the trend that every single person out there
Was doing am I in high school I I’m just I’m way past that age where I’m going to be wearing the same shirt because the the new girl in school or the popular girl school is wearing that but people are going to reward you for that because
Like I see it with with YouTube as well it’s like I could be making a video about like every new trendy topic or every new algorithm friendly thing but sometimes I just pause and I go no maybe I actually don’t want to do that because what image do I project you know like
What sort of person do do I look like when I do that I look like someone who’s like hopping on Trends to get as much attention as possible and sure like people will understand that sometime it is necessary and I feel like sometimes yeah it is necessary to hop on those
Trends because maybe you have an important message to to share but if you just make a you like a very like boring video on like a given topic and you have like this very like not CLE bit title at all like people won’t won’t listen to
The message so I feel like yeah like it’s it’s sort of find that balance yeah it’s finding that balance between yeah like using the medium the best way you can to share that message but the same time like not end up being the in in that viscious Circle where it’s like
Always like working for the algorithm working for the algorithm not working for the people who enjoy what you do and want a lot more about you and your way of doing really yeah exactly it’s such a catch 22 when you create content because you really have to establish your own
Voice and you kind of have to always ask yourself the question why am I doing what I’m doing is it just to get the numbers because if that’s the case you’re going to be swept left right and Center trying to catch up with what everyone else is doing and you’re GNA
Lose Yourself essentially because you’re not g to be it’s it’s almost like even when we’re talking about dating um uh there’s a great book by Mark Manson and it’s written for men but I read it anyways and it and it’s something and I forgot the term for that but it’s
Basically very simple it’s kind of like if you’re trying to be liked by everyone essentially you’re not really going to be loved by anyone and so if you’re trying to kind of um water yourself down water your personality down so that everyone kind of likes you enough you’re
Never really going to find that person that loves you or hates you you have to risk being hated to be loved and so for your kind of content the people that watch that are not going to be people that are watching videos on what would
You rate this girl from 1 to 10 like that’s a completely different demographic it’s essentially you’re attract to the people that are that are your friends and that are your followers but once they’re a follower they’re going to follow you you specifically not because you hopped on the latest Trend
And you’re doing that same video that everyone else is doing and the F that’s gonna eventually die because as all FS do you know like and that’s why I’m very happy that my channel grew very very progressively no Spike no it’s just like grew very progressively so that means
That the people some people came and left and it’s okay you know it’s part of the deal but I have this core Community that’s been here for ages because I’ve always done the same thing like the the the the the way I do things and the the
Way I talk about those things hasn’t changed much the topics have changed the analysis have changed Etc but deeply like I’m still me and I have my brand let’s say if we have to call it that way um and that’s what people want really they they they want to follow someone
They want to see consistency and they want to see someone who’s passionate about what they’re doing and who’s not doing it because yeah that’s that’s what should be done at that moment in time or whatever and I guess another thing with that as well is that uh and something I
Talk about in the book is the online that the pressure to to to to adopt online discourse and to to follow online discourse and to be kind of a slave to online discourse but like again like we were saying earlier like when you go out and talk to people and actually listen
To what they care about like sometimes you realize that uh what is happening online is just like such a small it it’s in it’s significant really and so the the you commenting what is happening there is also going to be insignificant what what sort of content do you make
What sort of ideas do you want to push forwards what sort of yeah what why are you on the platform really and like that’s something I keep asking myself all the time because like the pressure to you know to engage with online discourse or to be a slave to online
Discourse is like so strong sometimes of course and that’s because if you if you do that you get the hits because people are searching for that you know so that’s an easier way to grow but whether or not that’s the right way for you personally you I think you have to
Have a lot of integrity and be a really strong person and really understand why you’re there to create content when I started I was it was eight years ago I wanted to make videos on how to dat a French men and nowadays I’m like I’m I’m
Too old for this it no longer interests me so people oftentimes I got a little bit pigeon hold into into that because I made a lot of funny skits on how it’s like dating different cultures and that was interesting to me at the time but
Now I want my my goal is to go deeper into maybe the sociological factor of it all you know and and that’s why I started the podcast because I want to have these conversations and it’s not just give me 10 things to know about you
Know what happens when you go on a date with a French Guy and um I think that again it’s talking about how we grow and how our interests change but it’s also like staying true to yourself and what makes you excited about doing what you
Do because when I talk to a lot of YouTubers and I know you don’t like the term YouTuber you don’t want to be called a YouTuber just like me or influencer that’s the worst I hate influen so yeah oh that really gets me I just imagine myself like talking about
Eating sounds like propaganda it’s like yeah like I’m a propagandist I just influence people and they just listen to everything I say no I wish I wish I was an influencer because people will buy things for me like my sponsor don’t do very well because like we don’t care
About what you’re just do just do interviews and stuff but uh I wish I wish I was like guys buy this and I would make a whole bunch of money but I never wanted to be an influencer for that reason is that like I hate that
Word I don’t I don’t see myself as that and uh yeah and uh and again it’s H A lot of people are on YouTube just to create content so they’re like oh I don’t know I’m just like a lifestyle DIY the list goes on I just log about my
Life I’m like I think you need to be a little bit more concrete about why you’re there I mean is it just to make money because you’re going to be in it for a long haul girl or boy that it’s not going to be just a one day kind of
Spike thing you’re not going to become the next um Mr Beast you know and uh that doesn’t happen for a lot of people if it does it can have negative consequences as well because once you spike you’re then expected to keep up with that same content like you’ve been
Pige and hold into that so exactly it can wor yeah yeah yeah it’s like sometimes like you don’t even Define your again brand I don’t like this term but like your identity your online identity you don’t Define it yourself like people will Define it for you so so
It has happened times where I produce a video I’m not like super happy about it but I’m like okay at least I’ve done something and like it turns out to be something that people are really interested in and then they keep asking me about doing the same thing or blah
Blah and I’m like oh no that’s not what I wanted to do so I feel like to be honest like I haven’t found myself in that situation too much so I feel like what I do online is very much what I’m passionate about and like I I I feel
Like I’m free to really uh work on invest research any topic that I’m really interested in but I know some creators who yeah went viral with something that they were not really passionate about or that was not really what they wanted to do and from now they
Just have to continue to provide the same sort of content and that’s that must be very frustrating like that that must be really frustrating yeah there was a there was a Dutch YouTuber that I I don’t know if you know her but she she went viral a couple of years ago a few
Years ago rather and she was doing videos on just languages I think it was like Dutch something something and then she did a video reacting to Brazilian Portuguese and Brazilians they have a very strong social media community and so they loved her because she’s you know blonde European and she’s reacted to
Their language and they asked her to make another one and another one and another one and you know a few months later all she was doing was Brazilian content and I was like was that something you genuinely wanted to do or was that something that that was a you
Know the best seller so to speak so she got really pige and ho into that and then she went to Brazil and she stayed there I think so it was just I saw that all identity God damn it that whole channel isol in front of my eyes I was
Like I don’t even know if I would like that kind of uh publicity you know it’s then you’re then that’s it that’s all you’re doing but um yeah I I really love this conversation and I I I must admit I didn’t read the full book because I
Didn’t have a lot of time but I read quite a lot of few chapters and it was very very interesting you pull out a lot of information from different creators different sources so guys for anyone that’s listening to this podcast and want to dwell deeper into uh Alice’s
Work she’s a she doesn’t want to be called a YouTuber I I want to call you a social commentator I think that probably fits better yeah yeah it’s we say video essays social commentators I feel like I’m in between the two so like both terms work very well or online analyst
Oh there are so many terms like to avoid that influencer label but like yeah why not in the end like why not using the term influencer why having a stigma around it we do influence people that’s true but call me whatever you want to call me I’ll take it uh but
Yeah anyways if you guys enjoyed the podcast let us know in the comments below if you have any questions for Alice as well uh post them on YouTube and you can also do that on Spotify I’m not sure about Apple I haven’t figured out the logistics of Apple yet but you
Can go ahead work in progress there’s too many platforms to manage so I’m just one person but um yeah if you guys likeed it let us know in the comments below and if you want to check out Alice’s Instagram YouTube I’m going to link to all of that below Alice thank
You so much for taking part such a great conversation wasn’t so much culture like we went all around all all over the place which I really love with this I love it I love it when it’s like very genuine very like go with the flow type of conversations there these are the
Best and I hope people uh will have enjoy it really
11 Comments
Thank you for video ❤listeting to this i am so happy i am married 😂thank god😂
Great convo!
She is the problem
French women are extremely stuck up and take themselves way too seriously. They want to act independent and feminist yet still want the man to take charge and pay the bill. Stay away it’s too much drama.
I felt the issue was in India only but after this video it seems as universal problem
Hello, Thanks for the video.
Commitments freak me out
1:13:40 she lost me at make friends. yes it is cool to have friends but that is just displacing your happiness to depend on whos around you to pump you up where as you should be pumping up yourself and attract friends. not seek them all desperate.
It's funny how she mentions going back to domesticity/becoming a housewife as if it's this really dark and dangerous path of life to take. And being a housewife is only as isolating as u let it be. If u don't have kids u have tons of free time to do ur hobbies and/or meet with friends/relatives. If u have kids u should be happy to be so involved in their lives and what kind of people they become. You build a much stronger bond with them and it is u who gets to decide how they are raised and not some stranger who babysits them or takes care of them in some kind of kindergarden facility (sorry idk what is the name in english). This also makes the kids receive significantly less attention than they need in these early stages of their life which causes them to seek more attention later on. Most father's biggest regret btw is that they never got to spend enough time with their kids because they were too busy working.
When it comes to women and their role in society keep in mind that men's role is ONLY seen as a provider because if we are being honest the vast majority of women would not want a stay at home dad. If a man has no job he is of no use for the society. So women at least have one extra option that is socially acceptable (that of a housewife). If u want to be neither a housewife nor a boss bitch u can just get a regular job and have a stranger as ur boss ordering u around which imho sounds like the worst option considering ur neither strong/independent/rich nor do u live a less stressful and more rewarding life as a housewife.
Society needs its members to contribute to it otherwise it starts crumbling. Making friends, doing ur hobbies and whatever makes u happy while great is something u do strictly for yourself and it does not contribute to the society. If it did it would be viable for everyone to just do their thing instead of working. No society would function like that.
The point about being flakey is well put! I'm one of the people who is flaky too, and I put it down to a lack of clear transition to adulthood. I never understood what responsibility means, so I don't feel responsible for anyone else except myself. I'm not even sure if this is an ok mindset to have. Eventually though a total breakdown of marriage will lead to pockets of absolute isolation and total liberation, some level of extroversion will be required to be functional. I think we need to radically shift the way babies are born and raised in order to correct this issue as well. Here is my ideal life- I don't marry anyone ever, I want to have children but they are raised by a service where I and my partner meet them at my convenience, all obligations of child raising are taken up by specialty nannies at these services which i pay for (because i still want to pass on my genes). But what happens when I'm old? I hit 60, and then the dating scene ends, I have nobody. Gosh i'm confused.
So do talking to French people allways feel like your getting a lecture on the patriarchy at a liberal arts college?:D